Last week I had the privilege of interviewing accomplished filmmaker, Kevin Phillips. Over his career, Phillips has directed episodes of hit TV shows such as Monsterland and Under The Bridge. He has worked as a cinematographer on music videos for Childish Gambino and the Lumineers. And in 2017 he directed the feature film, Super Dark Times. Together, we completed one of my favorite interviews to date, discussing the absolute rollercoaster that is filmmaking.
Rua: "Good afternoon can we start with you introducing yourself?"
Phillips: "Yeah, I'm Kevin Phillips. I'm a filmmaker and photographer living in Los Angeles, California."
Rua:Â "And can you tell us a little bit about your recent work as a director on Under The Bridge? Is Lily Gladstone really as amazing in person as she seems on screen?"
Phillips:Â "Yes, Lily Gladstone is a Leo, which I deduced quite quickly, if only because I somewhat kind of believe in astrology. Lily and I got on great. She is wonderful to work with, a complete professional. I can't speak highly about her, enough. True, truly, just a joy to be around and work with, and she is so supportive of all of the other actors that she works with, especially the kids that were working in that show. I mean, Riley Keogh as well. Lily and Riley are really great friends, and they fostered such a conducive environment for everyone on that show. Having the opportunity to work on that show, for me, was exceptionally rewarding."
Rua:Â "One of the first interviews I ever did was with filmmaker, Kurt Kuenne, who also directed a few episodes of The Blacklist. Do you find directing television to be especially different from directing film?"
Phillips:Â "What you learn quite quickly is that television is effectively the writers medium, right? That's the main kind of difference. The differences between feature filmmaking and television is that the feature film, is more of a director's vision, so to speak. But when it comes to television, the way the show progresses falls entirely onto the writers. And so directors come in on certain shows, they come in for episodes, etc. And, you know, they only have effectively so much information. You know, it's a blessed situation if they know the entire arc of the series and like where the show is going and what came before it. But pragmatically, this is often not the case, because the way television works is almost militaristic in its scheduling and how time oriented it is. So when you come in as a director on a television series you're still beholden to the writers work, it's the writers medium. So yeah, you're in service of a vision. I equate television directing more towards my experiences working in advertising and commercials. In a sense that there are many masters that you serve. You know, it's not just the writer, it's not just the creator, it's not just the show runner, it's the producers, it's a production company. There's a whole list of important people. I honestly had such a great time on Under The Bridge and Monsterland as well. I find the experience to be extremely validating."
Rua: "Yeah, I always hear that when it comes to film, the director is the boss. But when it comes to TV, the writer is the boss. It's something that not a lot of people outside the industry know about. And speaking of directing, a few years ago you were told the words that every single young filmmaker dreams of hearing: 'we want you to direct a feature.' I just want to know...what's that like?"
Phillips:Â "And you're referring to Super Dark Times?"
Rua:Â "I am."
Phillips:Â "I was very fortunate to be very close friends with both writers of the film, one writer that I graduated college with, Ben Collins. I've now been friends with Ben for 20 years. We have had a working relationship ever since college. And it was in college that we always dreamed about, like, what are the type of films that we're going to be making when we get out of here? You know, what are we going to do with our lives? Because we certainly planned on continuing the working relationship, and that was the same for a lot of my colleagues and friends that I met in college. I was very fortunate to meet a tremendous amount of talented people to whom I still work with to this day. So when Ben and I were here in Los Angeles, he had this idea for the film. It came to him in a dream, as silly as that sounds, but it was about the middle part of the movie that you know, a bunch of friends in a field, then a tragedy occurs all revolving around like a sword, particularly a samurai sword. Ben called me in the morning and said 'I got an idea, can we go for a walk?' We went for a walk and he kind of pitched it to me, you know. And as he was pitching it, we both realized, that there was potential here. He got very excited about it. I was a little bit more reluctant, but that's only because that's just more about my personality. But Ben went ahead and wrote a draft in like six days, and he was like 'I think this is it. I think I should write this and you should direct it.' And then became, like the very long, drawn out process of developing this thing, and I'll say, like, from that first draft, you know, I immediately started to engage with it. I still have a copy of it somewhere where there's still, like notes in the margins that still pertain to the movie. Luke Piotrowski, Ben's writing partner at the time, came in, did a second draft on the film, and it really took form and shape. Cut to like five years later, we had brought on two really close friends, Jett Steiger and Richard Peete that were also producers that were interested in the film. We had, at that point made a short proof of concept film called Too Cool For School that played at Critics Week in Cannes, which got a lot of attention for us. It was just even later in that year that we actually had the money in the bank to be able to make the film. So it was a real slow road, until all of a sudden it was moving really quickly. Did that answer your question? How did it feel? I'm very grateful to this day, will forever be grateful for the privilege that I have. Of you know, not only having friends like these that I collaborate with, but people that think of me and consider me when you know, writing stories, when creating stories, it means the world."
Rua: "That's incredible! I mean, you always hear that the most valuable thing you can get out of film school is the connections. How much of your success would you attribute to your film school education? You went to SCAD right?"
Phillips:Â "Yes, god that's a great question. I don't even know how to quantify that. I owe so much to that experience. The art school aspect of the of that experience I found to be very rewarding, because it literally brought a bunch of students together of different disciplines, to interact and inform one another. And so the education was just so much more dimensional. The techniques, the skill sets, knowledge and wisdom that I picked up from the classes and from the professors, some of whom I absolutely stay in touch with to this day was phenomenal. The most rewarding aspect of that entire experience is the people that I've met, the friends that I've met that I still work with to this day. So I owe so much of my career to my education."
Rua:Â "That's great to hear. And I'm just curious, when Josh drinks a glass of milk in Super Dark Times, is that A Clockwork Orange reference?"
Phillips:Â "Yeah, absolutely, and we were wearing a lot of our influences on our sleeves with that movie. It's funny, that whole incident where Josh is drinking from the milk that was early on. I remember I was really fascinated with this idea of just this moment that could sustain itself, where he's just, like, looking past this glass. I think it was determined that it should be milk quite quickly, you know. But it was originally just like, he's drinking something, whether it be water or whatever, and it's just a silent moment where these girls are watching him and he's watching them. It's more about like this kind of awkward pause. But it really made so much sense that it should be milk because it's disgusting and yada yada. All villains drink milk and A Clockwork Orange was an influence on that."
Rua:Â "That's awesome because that's been my favorite movie since I was fourteen. So, for a large part of your career you've worked exclusively as a cinematographer. But when you take on the role of director, what do you look for in a cinematographer?"
Phillips:Â "Great question. I studied cinematography to be a better director. When I went to school, it was to direct. I quickly realized that storytelling in cinema in a way comes back down to the fundamentals of, like, a lens and a subject and what that all means. So the relationship between a camera and a subject meant so much for me. Cinema for me is so much about rhythm and tone. And so those parameters, I kind of, you know, correlate to image making. So when I'm working as a director, the opportunity always arises where I think 'am I going to shoot this? Is this something that I would like to to work as a cinematographer on?' In most instances, I will gladly say no. I will absolutely look, for cinematographers to work with. I enjoy the relationship so much. I'm effectively looking like I am for any other department head, a collaborator that wants to tell the same story. I'm looking for somebody that will challenge me and I'll always try to surround myself with people that are just way more skilled and smarter than I am effectively, you know? I think, like, that's the move, because, I'm really trying to cut ego out of the equation, because I really do fall back to the collaborative aspect of the medium. I'm very particular as a director about certain things. Like, I can be very, very specific about lensing and lens height and all of that stuff like camera speed, camera movements, how things are happening, lighting for sure, you know, but it's all collaborative. And so my experience working with Eli Born on Super Dark Times, Too Cool for School or the Lumineers project with Wyatt Garfield, or any of the DPs I work with on Under the Bridge or on Monsterland has by and large been, like, excellent. I respect that job so much. I know what goes into that job, and by proxy, I know what goes into most other department jobs. Working as a cinematographer has really given me an 'on the ground' kind of perspective into the machinations of filmmaking. And so, yeah, long answer to basically say, I'm looking for collaborators that are calm, cool, and collected, and a great pleasure to be around, and are reactive in the ways that I am, and are also extremely nuanced and detail oriented in the ways that I am, you know? I'm not looking for somebody opposite than me necessarily. For the most part, I'm looking for somebody that shares a very similar type of grammar in the sense of filmmaking.
Rua:Â "Interesting. Cinematography is usually the first thing I notice in a film. And speaking of music videos, you've worked on a lot that I grew up loving as a kid especially the Childish Gambino ones. Do you have a favorite video you've worked on?"
Phillips:Â "Sure. Absolutely. I mean, I loved working on Childish Gambino's "Sober" video. We actually filmed that on my birthday and it was a real pleasure. We were shooting all into the night. A really funny anecdote about that video is that there's one specific shot where Donald gives the woman an egg and she cracks it open and pulls out this like fortune cookie slip or something. It says: "I'm so high." When we were filming that, I was behind the camera, really tight in on this extreme close-up. And on the first take she cracks it, opens it up, and it says 'Happy Birthday, Kevin' on it."
Rua: "That is so awesome!"
Phillips: "And what's even funnier is that the director, Hiro Murai, told me 'we really were this close to leaving it in the video.' And it's like that type of...inexplicable oddity that Donald and Hiro adore and really kind of relish in. So I loved working on that video. I mean, there's been so many, but all those experiences with Childish Gambino and Hiro have been great. As a director, I worked on the entire Lumineers III project, which was exceptionally rewarding. We had time to fulfill the ambition of the project, which was very big. To this day, I still regard that as one of the better experiences I've had as a as a filmmaker. Super Dark Times, Lumineers, the Múm video, those were incredible experiences."
Rua: "Now, the last question I ask all my guests is the infamous: 'what is your favorite swear word?' Do you have one in mind?"
Phillips:Â "We have a countdown of the amount of 'fucks' that are said in Super Dark Times. On the special edition, I think there's a little counter that our editor made for the DVD or, like, iTunes extra type things. That's not that creative of, I wish I could be a little bit more imaginative, at this moment. This is this is what's gonna happen. I'm gonna get off this call, and I'll immediately be like, oh, I should've said this. You know. Let's just keep it at fuck."
Rua: "Always a classic. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, it was so nice meeting you and this has been so informative and insanely cool."
Phillips:Â "I'll see you around! Thanks so much for reaching out!
Thank you once again to Kevin Phillips for donating his time to appear on our publication. All of his professional work can be found on his IMDB as well as the various music videos he worked on on Youtube.
Thanks for reading Cinemasters.net and always remember to never stop watching!
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