Interview with Director, Tony Kaye

In 1998, the world was shook by a deeply disturbing crime drama that would soon join the club of films you watch once and never again. This film from nearly three decades ago was American History X by English director, Tony Kaye, who up until that point had been known for his prolific work in commercials and music videos, most notably for artists like Soul Asylum, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Johnny Cash. For the first time since 2011, Kaye is out with a new feature film: The Trainer starring Vito Schnabel, Julia Fox, Lenny Kravitz, Bella Thorne, Gina Gershon, Beverly D'Angelo, Paris Hilton, and more! Last week I had the immense pleasure of sitting down with Mr. Kaye to discuss his latest film, his love of Adrian Brody, his planned sequel to American History X, and the "perfectly calibrated, God-designed machine" known as Julia Fox.

Rua: "Thank you so much for speaking with us today, Mr. Kaye. I have been a huge fan of your work for years, especially Detachment and Lake of Fire. So it's really a privilege to have you on our publication. Can we start with you introducing yourself?"

Kaye: "Well yeah, I'm Tony Kaye, I'm 73 years old. I've made four feature films: American History X, Lake of Fire, Detachment, The Trainer, and Black Water Transit which is not finished. I mean, none of them are really finished but Black Water Transit is the least finished of all them. Before that I made a lot of music videos and commercials and won a lot of awards, if I may say so. With the movies I've been nominated for great deal of things, Edward Norton of course was nominated for an Academy Award for American History X, and he would've won if he had listened to me. And I can say that on air, I'm quite happy to say that. Well done Edward for losing your only stab at Best Actor. I hope to make a director's cut of that someday. My next movie that will be coming out after The Trainer is Humpty Dumpty X, which will be telling what happened on set of American History X. Anyway I paint, I write songs, I'm about to make a short film with British parliament about antisemitism, and I'm very happy to be here with Rua today."

Rua: "Fantastic. Now if I'm correct you originally wanted American History X to be credited to Alan Smithee? Which for those who don't know is the film equivalent of saying: 'directed by Anonymous.'"

Kaye: "No, I wanted it credited to Humpty Dumpty, which is why the upcoming documentary is titled Humpty Dumpty X. You know, it's my movie and they changed a few things, but my problem was that I didn't get to finish. I started working with another writer called Derek Walcott, who's a Nobel laureate and we did some amazing stuff. But the problem with me is that at the time I was so used to working within the advertising world in the British scene. I got myself into this hallowed situation where I was literally allowed to do anything I wanted without explaining myself. So I was just making stuff up as I went along. It wasn't until the making of this unfinished experimental film called Lobby Lobster that I realized the only way to make a film look written and planned was to actually write and plan it. I thought I could carry my British commercial making skills into creating American films, because I'm such a lover of American cinema."

Rua: "I mean it seems like you're just always working on something, like multiple things at once whether it be films or painting or music or commercials..."

Kaye: "Well I don't do commercials or music videos anymore. And it's not because I don't want to, I think they just started to feel heavily corporatized for me. Right now I'm making movies, I'm just finishing up a documentary with Lenny Kravitz right now."

Tony Kaye & Julia Fox at the 2024 Rome Film Festival by Stefania D'Alessandro/Getty Images

Rua: "So because you work on so many things at once, how did you decide that The Trainer was something you really wanted to see through?"

Kaye: "Well I always want to see everything through, it's just about whether or not I'm allowed to, whether that's by other people or by God, who's my ultimate commander. The Trainer is a real unbelievable miracle; I was working on this sort of documentary about celebrity fitness trainer, Kirk Myers. He's the personal trainer of Taylor Swift, Lana Del Rey, and many others. Then one day I met this extraordinary young fellow named Vito Schnabel who came into the gym and Kirk called me and said 'I've got this guy here who's written a screenplay and he wants to direct it but I think you should do it.' So I said 'sure' because I actually was a fan of Vito, he's a curator, an art dealer, just a visionary. He had been working with this writer, Jeff Solomon on this screenplay, so I invited them to my house and I basically said 'I'll be the director, you be the star.' So we made this movie, and for me it was just about working with this bloke who had never really thought about becoming an actor. I came to America because I wanted to work with American actors because I thought their timing, personalities, mechanisms, their modus operandi of performance were so much better suited for the camera than English actors, who are more suited for the stage. I felt because I'd made so many TV commercials with unknown actors, I could turn this guy into an actor. I love actors, I love helping them create their characters, which is why I really wanted to do The Trainer. Vito conjured up this character who was an exercise gadget salesman, which to me isn't much of a jump from selling Ai Weiwei paintings."

Rua: "I still can't believe you got Ai Weiwei to make a cameo, that's just so incredible. So you have a real affinity for American cinema?"

Kaye: "I've always loved American movies, back when I was a kid there weren't many extraordinary British movies. To be honest I never got into the French New Wave or anything like that but I do love Fellini. I actually really want to make a Fellini movie someday."

Rua: "I mean who doesn't love Fellini? I was working at Harvard around the time they threw 'Fellini month' at the film archive. What I loved most about The Trainer when I saw it at Tribeca was its absolutely singular visual style. So I was wondering if that stems from your passion for visual art or Vito's connection to the art world?"

Kaye: "It came from me, it didn't come from the screenplay. I wanted the film to have the vernacular of a shopping channel, y'know a lot of texts, movement, graphics. Graphic design is its own character in the movie. I worked with this wonderful designer called Jeff Knowles and a visual effects artist called Jan Hirschbjork and we conjured up this buffet of that stuff. I wanted to go further but got kind of held back, just because we ran out of time and those practical things. But the film had to resemble a shopping channel and also reflect that the main character had not slept in like a week. I wanted it to visually work for someone watching it on a handheld gadget on the bus."

Rua: "Just for my own satisfaction, can you please tell us what it was like working with Julia Fox?"

Kaye: "Yeah, Julia is an absolute professional, just a perfectly calibrated, God-designed machine of transmission. She becomes the character and then just goes back to being Julia Fox. There's no preparation, no insane stretch of time to become the character, she just has like a built-in button that she knows how to press when she wants to. I get on very well with her. She gave me an incredible performance, she was never late, she's just amazing. She's amazing in the movie, I think she's worthy of an Academy Award nomination, I really do."

Rua: "I find myself just endlessly fascinated by her and the variety of movies she takes on whether they're big budget blockbusters or small indie projects. She doesn't consider herself above or below any of it. She's like number one of my list of celebrities I'd love to get a drink with. Now, for anyone who's seen your other films like American History X or Detachment, The Trainer seems like a really heavy departure, can you speak to that at all? "

Kaye: "Not really, I mean I've made thousand of commercials and a lot of music videos. I've spent about 15,000 combined days of my life on sets. So the movies I've done are just that, they're the ones I've done but they're far from the only movies I've tried to make. Detachment was compromised to be honest, I'd love to go back and re-edit that someday. It's a drama so it has to be shot like a drama... Adrien Brody is a genius by the way. But The Trainer is not a drama, I don't really know what it is, it's not a comedy, it's not a drama. I do a lot of different things like Humpty Dumpty X is nothing like Lake of Fire, I actually think Lake of Fire is the best movie I've made. So yeah, they're all very different because they just needed to be."

Rua: "I gotta know, what was it like seeing Adrien Brody win Best Actor again this year?"

Kaye: "It was amazing! I was praying that he would win it, I thought he was absolutely incredible in The Brutalist. I think Brady Corbet did an amazing job, when I saw the budget I was really shocked. The thing about Adrien is, and I said this the other day on a conference call about this other film I'm casting right now, and I thought of him for one of the leads but the thing is, Adrien is not one of the leads, he's THE lead. When Adrien's in a film, everyone else is just propping him up, they're not even satellites in his orbit. He's so brilliant and so idiosyncratic, I think he's probably the greatest living actor and that was proven in the victory. He didn't really have anyone else to beat if I'm honest, nobody else came close."

Sami Gayle, Adrien Brody, Tony Kaye, Yan Lin Kaye at the 2011 Tribeca Film Festival by: Neilson Barnard

Rua: "I mean personally I don't think there's a finer performance than him in The Pianist."

Kaye: "That's a very different performance. He doesn't actually say much in The Pianist, it's a very physical performance. I don't think anyone else could've played that role, it's the same for The Brutalist. "

Rua: "You're right, he's just brilliant. I'm curious, because you've been in film so long and have seen just so many projects, is there a single film you can point to as your favorite?"

Kaye: "Lawrence of Arabia. I've got a favorite movie, painting, band, song, I don't have a favorite book or poem yet, but those are Lawrence of Arabia, Picasso's Guernica, The Beatles, and A Day in the Life."

Rua: "I'm the same way, I was that weirdo in high school who could name her top five cinematographers. Anyway, would you mind telling our audiences where they'll be able to watch The Trainer when it comes out soon?"

Kaye: "At the moment we're working out a deal with a confidential streaming platform. Hopefully we'll get a theatrical release soon but it's a streaming movie, I never made it for the cinema."

Rua: "Well I'm looking forward to seeing it again. Mr. Kaye thank you so much for speaking with me today it was truly such a pleasure to talk to you."

Kaye: "Of course, thank you."

I'd like to thank Mr. Kaye once again for his immense generosity with his time and willingness to share his craft. Make sure to keep an eye out for The Trainer soon, you'll be glad you did. Thank you for tuning into Cinemasters and remember to never stop watching!